Odysseus in Action: 1st set of Interviews in Chania
Let's talk about inclusion in schools. What concerns students, teachers, and parents? And what do specialists in education and social rights think about it?
On September 18, I had the opportunity to speak with four professionals working in the fields of education and social rights. My interviewees on the topic of inclusion in education were:
Areti Marmataki — Coordinator of School Programmes at the Chania Education Directorate, responsible for general education schools.
Georgios Psarakis — Director of the Chania Directorate of Secondary Education, responsible for general and special education.
Eleni Servidaki — Deputy Mayor of Chania for Social Policy.
Chrysa Terezaki — Director of the Chania Directorate of Primary Education.
When we talk about inclusion in education, many questions immediately arise. How is the work of these specialists aimed at supporting children with different cognitive, psychological, and physical conditions? We should also remember that many children of different ages experience bullying not only because of their health conditions, but also because of their ethnic background. Let's go through everything step by step!
What exactly do these specialists do, and how is their work connected to inclusion?
First of all, a perfectly logical question may arise: who exactly are these specialists, and what does their work have to do with inclusion and diversity?
During DHIAfest, I spoke with three people who work at different levels of the educational and social system in Chania. Their positions are different from one another, and therefore their areas of responsibility are also different.
1.1. Areti Marmataki — Coordinator of School Programmes at the Chania Education Directorate, responsible for general education schools.
Simply put, her work is connected with coordinating educational programmes in general education schools. This is the level of the system where it is important not only what children are taught, but also how the educational process itself is organised.
And this is where the direct connection with inclusion appears. A general education school is a place where children with different abilities, characteristics, backgrounds, and needs study together. Therefore, the question of how well a school can take differences between students into account becomes part of the broader education system. She told me that she had organised activities related to ecology, an activity where children learned basic first aid, and activities in which children helped with safe-driving initiatives. An article about this exhibition will be published by us a little later, so stay tuned for the news.
1.2. Georgios Psarakis — Director of the Chania Directorate of Secondary Education, responsible for general and special education.
In his case, the connection with inclusion becomes even more obvious, because his area of responsibility includes both general and special education. In other words, we are talking about a system that has to take the needs of different groups of students into account.
Inclusion in this case is not simply the idea that "all children should be together." It is also about how the education system can create conditions in which children with different needs have the opportunity to participate in the educational process.
At this level, it becomes particularly clear that inclusion is not connected only to an individual teacher or a particular student. It depends on how the education system itself is organised, what programmes exist, and what specialists and support mechanisms are available.
1.3. Eleni Servidaki — Deputy Mayor of Chania for Social Policy.
Her work is already situated somewhat differently. While the first two specialists are directly connected with the education system, municipal social policy covers a broader range of issues related to social support and people's participation in society.
However, it is important to take into account that Eleni began her career as a school teacher and was also a school principal before changing her focus from schools to working in the ministry. Therefore, she is very familiar with what is happening in schools.
It was interesting for me to speak specifically with people who operate at different levels of this system. One person works directly with general education schools, another is responsible for secondary education, including special education, and the third works in social policy at the municipal level.
It creates something like a chain: school — education system — municipal social policy.
And if we talk about inclusion only as the idea that "children with disabilities should study together with other children," we significantly oversimplify the subject.
In practice, inclusion concerns a much wider range of issues: how a child feels at school, whether they receive the support they need, whether they can participate in the educational process, whether they experience discrimination or bullying, whether a person with a disability can participate in public life, and how accessible the surrounding environment is.
This is exactly why the conversation with these three specialists was important to me. They are located in different parts of the same system, but their work is connected in one way or another with making sure that education and public life can take the differences between people into account rather than ignoring them.
2. Disability
Before we start discussing this topic, I would like to clarify that, according to the specialists mentioned above, Greece has a fairly complicated system that determines whether a child with special needs will study in a special school or not.
When I tried to find out from the specialists where exactly the line is drawn that determines whether a student goes to a mainstream school or a school for children with special educational needs, all of them told me that parents play a major role in this matter.
In Greece, there is no necessary law that forces parents to take their child to doctors so that they can assess the child's health and, based on that assessment, determine the appropriate form of education.
So how does this chain work?
Let's say you are the parent of a child with cognitive developmental differences, and you deliberately decided not to send them to a special school — we will discuss this below. In that case, a mainstream school does not have the right to refuse to accept that child. However, after a certain period of time, teachers and specialists may recommend transferring the child to another school if the child is unable to follow the mainstream curriculum together with the other students.
This creates two possible scenarios.
The parent agrees and transfers the child. This is the best option — the child receives the individualised education they need, while the previous school does not have to use the teacher's resources to make them divide their attention between explaining the topic to one child and teaching the rest of the class.
The parent refuses. In that case, the school sometimes has the resources to overcome the parents' "veto", and sometimes it does not. According to the specialists, it depends on the particular case.
In any case, if teachers recommend sending a child to a special school, this will be the better option. The specialists assured me that they and the teachers in schools are always ready to support a child so that they can remain in a mainstream school. However, mainstream education requires students to master the material, and if a student continues to have difficulties even with additional support, they should attend a special school.
Eleni S. told me that Greek schools are currently trying to completely adapt their infrastructure so that a child with a physical disability does not have to choose a specialised institution.
For example, Eleni told me that ALL schools in Crete have lifts so that children using wheelchairs can reach their classrooms and remain fully independent within the school premises.
We also discussed hearing and visual disabilities with the specialists. Surprisingly, there are also ways to keep these children in mainstream schools. Under the law, parents have the right to request a special assistant for their child who will sit with them in the classroom and help them understand and learn the material on an equal basis with the other students.
Here we encounter another problem. The law exists, but the specialists told me that sometimes it is impossible to find the necessary assistant for a child. It takes time for the law to fully reflect reality and for the system to work the way it is supposed to.
A little off-topic. Have you ever wondered why we talk about inclusion for people with disabilities only at the level of school education and never at the university level? I have always found it strange that, for example, a child with autism can have their educational programme adjusted in a mainstream school, but once they enter university, nobody is going to do that anymore...
This is a subject that could open a Pandora's box of endless discussion.
In general, after speaking with the specialists, I came to understand something for myself. In developed countries, there is a trend towards children with physical disabilities not attending specialised schools, but instead being integrated into mainstream schools by adapting those schools to improve mobility and by providing specialist support for individual children.
However, children who have developmental differences are still often directed towards specialised institutions, where the school curriculum is delivered in a more simplified and individualised form.
I spoke with each of the specialists practically one-on-one rather than as a group. When I asked them what was better for children with special needs — 1) being integrated into mainstream school classes or 2) receiving a more individualised education — the specialists gave contradictory answers.
This is a very complicated subject because we are talking about real human lives, and education and socialisation are important for a child's entire future. Each side had its own arguments that reflected their personal opinions.
From my own perspective, I got the impression that the truth lies somewhere in the middle. If a child has a minor cognitive impairment that does not significantly affect their intellectual abilities, or if they have a physical disability, then I believe they should attend a mainstream school.
But in cases of significantly reduced intellectual abilities and other conditions that make it difficult to effectively absorb the educational material, I believe the child should attend a special school.
I mentioned that there are parents who deliberately do not want to send their child with special needs to a special school. But why?
The answer is right in front of us — it is often a matter of psychology. Many parents do not want to accept the fact that their child has differences compared with typically developing children. And those who have already psychologically gone through the stage of denial may still be unable to bring themselves to make this information public — for example, by not hiding from their neighbours that their child attends a specialised institution.
One of the specialists told me a story. Once, when he was a teacher, a scandal broke out between parents who were accusing each other of whose genes had "played a role" in their child's condition.
The argument lasted for several hours, and the worst part was that they were simply arguing in front of the teacher instead of discussing the actual problem and possible solutions.
As the specialists told me, parents often see a teacher not as a person, but as a role — one in which the teacher is expected to take responsibility not only for the student, but also for providing psychological support to the parents when it is not actually their responsibility.
The advice is universal: the teacher does not care how it happened that the child has health problems. They are not doctors or detectives whose job is to investigate this. Their focus is on solving the problem.
Do not forget that teachers are people who have families of their own. There is no need to waste their time unnecessarily. Personal issues within your relationship as a couple should be resolved at home or with specialists in a professional setting.
3. Bullying
Earlier, we published an article about school bullying in which we interviewed ARSIS — the Association for Social Support of Youth — and the Municipality of Thessaloniki. There we discussed this topic in more detail: what causes bullying, why it happens, and what solutions to the problem of bullying should be considered.
In that article, we mentioned that practically anything can become a reason for bullying: differences in a student's behaviour or appearance, the family's financial situation, possible health problems, or other characteristics that make a child stand out from the rest.
Let's discuss bullying in schools once again, but this time from a different perspective — specifically, from the perspective of regulation and prevention. The problem of bullying has been known for a long time, and, of course, the specialists confirmed to me that teachers regularly take additional courses on the subject so that they can identify problems more effectively, understand what is happening between students, and propose possible solutions. Universities also teach students studying to become teachers not only how to teach their subject, but also how to communicate with children in an appropriate and constructive way, build communication with them, and create a safe atmosphere in the classroom. Almost all of the specialists I spoke with had actual experience working in schools as teachers and/or principals. When I asked each of them what, in their opinion, the biggest problem for teachers was when it came to school bullying and education in general, every single one of them, surprisingly, gave me exactly the same answer: parents. Parents, in their desire to give their child the very best, can sometimes unintentionally harm them by assuming that they can be more professional when it comes to telling a teacher how children should be taught in the classroom or how a particular problem should be handled.
"You cannot walk into a surgeon's office and tell them how to perform an operation. So why do we give parents the right to tell a teacher how to do their job?"
It is difficult to argue with this statement.
But why do parents so often become confrontational with teachers?
One possible reason is that parents are former children. They also went to school once, and unfortunately, many children around the world have been victims of bullying not only by other students but also by teachers. Those who themselves were traumatised by teachers' actions or indifference may transfer their fears and negative experiences onto their own children.
And this creates a rather complicated situation.
On the one hand, parents really should protect their child and pay attention to their wellbeing. On the other hand, constant distrust of the teacher and attempts to control their every step do not necessarily help the child and may sometimes only intensify the conflict between everyone involved.
After speaking with the specialists, I came up with a simple formula for myself: ask your child about the atmosphere at school and in the classroom. Ask how the other students behave, how the teacher talks to the children, and what happens when a conflict arises.
In one sentence, try to understand the most important thing: can the teacher maintain a healthy and safe atmosphere in the classroom?
I think this is exactly where the main point of interaction between parents, teachers, and children should be. Not in constantly looking for someone to blame, but in trying to understand what is actually happening with the child and what kind of atmosphere they experience at school every day. But the main conflicts that arise between parents and teachers are not limited to bullying.
Sometimes parents do not want their child to study a particular topic as part of a school subject. The difficulty is that a teacher does not have the right to simply remove topics that have been selected and approved by the Ministry of Education.
A teacher is an employee of the education system. If a particular topic is included in the lesson plan, it cannot simply be skipped because a particular parent does not want their child to study it. And what should a teacher do in such a situation? It is not always clear.
On the one hand, a student may fail to complete assignments not because of laziness or unwillingness to study, but because their parents prohibit them from studying a particular topic. Nobody is going to remove homework or questions from a test simply because parents do not allow their child to study something. In this situation, the conflict is no longer only between parents and teachers. It is also a conflict between the parents' desire to control their child's education and the teacher's obligations as an employee of the education system.
Whatever the subject may be, the specialists assured me that, as former school workers themselves, they do not want to intentionally harm other children. According to them, all the topics included in the educational programme are designed not simply so that a child can prepare for final exams, but also so that they can become well-rounded and acquire knowledge in different areas.
And here, it seems to me, another important question arises: how exactly should a teacher talk about complicated or controversial topics?
The specialists also made it clear to me that topics taught in class should be presented to students, especially in history and other social subjects, as neutrally as possible. If a topic has two or more sides, students should be given information about different points of view so that they can form their own understanding of what happened.
A teacher should not turn a lesson into an attempt to convince children that one side is "right." Their task is to provide information, explain the context, and give the student the opportunity to analyse the knowledge they have received. And perhaps this approach can become one of the points where parents and teachers can find common ground. Parents have the right to be interested in what their children are being taught, to ask questions, and to discuss the educational process. But at the same time, teachers should also be able to do their jobs and follow the educational programme. Ultimately, school is not only a place where a child receives grades. It is a place where they gradually learn to process information, ask questions, encounter different opinions, and form their own understanding of the world around them.
The Specialists' Personal Opinions
But, of course, I was interested in learning not only what falls within these people's official responsibilities. I wanted to understand their personal opinions.
What do they themselves think about the problems children face at school? How difficult is it in practice to create an inclusive and safe educational environment? And where, in their opinion, is the boundary between the responsibilities of the school, the teacher, and the parents?
During our conversations, I noticed one common thing: the specialists did not view inclusion as a separate problem that could be solved with one specific rule or one additional lesson.
For them, inclusion is an ongoing process that starts with something very simple: a child should feel like part of the class and understand that their differences do not make them worse than anyone else.
All the activities we discussed were not directly connected to the topic of inclusion. However, it is important to emphasise that the children who participated in these activities came from different social groups, families with different financial backgrounds, different nationalities, children with developmental differences, and so on.
So all the children were involved in the process of games and volunteer work regardless of their background.
At the same time, the specialists emphasised that a school cannot exist separately from society.
Children come to school already carrying their own views, experiences, family histories, and perceptions of other people.
Therefore, it is impossible to change the atmosphere at school while completely ignoring what is happening outside the school environment.
That is why, according to the specialists, it is important to work not only with children, but also with parents and teachers.
Teachers need to understand how to respond to conflict, how to recognise bullying, and how to prevent situations in which a child becomes isolated from the others.
Parents, in turn, should have the opportunity to talk about their child's problems, but they must also be prepared to listen to specialists and understand how the education system works.
And children need to be given the space to speak about their problems themselves.
Specialists, as well as my Greek friends — university professors whom I also asked to comment on this factor — told me that, based on their feelings and observations as people working in education, they have noticed a certain trend.
Keep in mind that each of them occupies a completely different position and works with different groups of people.
However, their opinions on this particular issue completely coincided: they have observed an increase in the level of different characteristics and additional needs among children and students — from relatively mild to more complex cases — approximately since 2010.
It is important to clarify that we are talking specifically about the observations of the specialists I spoke with, rather than them claiming that there is one specific cause or explanation for this trend.
I decided to check whether similar observations appeared only in the personal experience of the specialists I had spoken with, or whether there was a broader statistical picture.
I managed to find several studies and articles showing statistics from developed countries in which a similar trend can indeed be observed.
And the most concerning part is that this is not only happening in Greece.
Similar changes are being observed in other countries as well, which makes us think not only about a particular school system or individual teachers, but about what is happening with children and with education systems as a whole.
You can look at these studies yourself and see what causes and factors researchers associate with the increasing number of children who require additional educational or social support.
We, however, will continue with the opinions of the specialists I spoke with.
It is important to note that these are their professional observations and assumptions, rather than conclusively proven causes.
According to them, this situation may be connected to several different factors:
1. Economic crisis
The economic situation directly affects families and the opportunities parents have to support their children.
Financial difficulties can lead to greater stress within the family and limit access to specialists, additional education, and other forms of support.
As a result, some problems experienced by a child may become more noticeable or, conversely, remain without the necessary support.
The specialists believe that economic conditions need to be taken into account when we talk about child development and the possibilities of the education system.
2. Poor environmental conditions
Another factor that the specialists consider important is the state of the environment.
Air, water, and soil pollution, exposure to various chemicals, and other environmental factors can affect human health and development.
At the same time, the specialists emphasised that environmental factors cannot automatically be considered the cause of specific conditions in a child, since such connections require separate scientific investigation.
However, environmental deterioration remains a factor that needs to be considered when discussing the health and development of future generations.
3. Excessive use of phones and computers
Another topic that almost always comes up in conversations about modern children is the enormous amount of time they spend in front of screens.
Phones, tablets, and computers have become a normal part of a child's life, and with them have come changes in habits, daily routines, levels of physical activity, and ways of communicating.
The specialists believe that excessive use of devices can negatively affect certain aspects of a child's development, especially when screen time replaces sleep, physical activity, face-to-face communication, and other important activities.
However, it is also important not to make the overly simple conclusion that phones or computers themselves are the cause of specific conditions, because the scientific evidence is much more complicated than such a direct connection.
4. One parent in the family
Another factor mentioned by the specialists was the situation in which a child grows up with only one parent.
In such a family, responsibility for financial support, upbringing, education, and emotional support may all fall on one person.
This can create additional pressure and stress for both the parent and the child, especially if the family does not have sufficient support from relatives or social services.
At the same time, it is important to emphasise that having one parent does not in itself mean that a child will necessarily develop any particular condition or problem: what matters are the specific circumstances in which the family lives and the support available to them.
When I asked each of the specialists during the interviews to name at least one aspect they would like to improve regarding inclusion in education, without focusing on questions of funding and bureaucracy, each of them gave their own answer.
1. Continue improving school infrastructure and following the law.
The first specialist noted that it is important to continue working on improving the school environment in accordance with existing legislation. The main goal is to ensure that all children have equal opportunities for mobility and access to all the necessary school facilities and resources. This is not only about the physical accessibility of a building, but also about creating an environment in which a child does not face additional obstacles because of their particular needs. In the specialist's opinion, this work needs to continue until an accessible and safe school environment becomes the norm for everyone.
2. More joint projects for children from mainstream and special schools.
The second specialist suggested increasing the number of projects that would allow children from mainstream and special schools to interact more with one another. Such projects could create situations in which children are not simply present in the same place, but participate in activities together, learn, communicate, and share experiences. The specialist found it particularly interesting to organise such projects outside cities, for example through trips to rural areas. This could simultaneously contribute to children's socialisation, introduce them to different living environments, and create new forms of interaction between different groups of students.
3. Increase salaries for school employees.
The third specialist specifically highlighted the need to increase the salaries of education workers. We should not forget that a teacher is also an ordinary person with ordinary needs, financial responsibilities, and personal plans. In their opinion, higher pay could make the profession more attractive to young people and motivate more specialists to choose a career in education. In addition, decent working and pay conditions, in the specialist's opinion, could influence people's willingness to remain in the profession and continue developing within it.
4. Reduce the number of children in each class.
Another proposal was to reduce the number of students in each class. The fewer children a teacher is responsible for at the same time, the more attention they can potentially give to each individual child. This is particularly important in inclusive education, where students can have very different learning speeds, needs, and ways of processing information. In the specialist's opinion, reducing the number of children in a classroom could reduce the teacher's workload while simultaneously creating more comfortable learning conditions for each student.
5. Reduce the number of subjects and the workload placed on students.
The specialists also told me that they feel sorry for students because the role of the teacher is increasingly turning into one of preparing children for final exams rather than preparing them for life itself. Because of the enormous amount of material, teachers sometimes simply do not have enough time to spend a little longer on a particular topic in order to make sure that all students have actually understood and absorbed it. And the question of inclusion is precisely that all children are different: some need only one explanation, while others need more time, additional examples, or a different way of explaining the material. According to the specialists, the entire system of educational workload needs to be reconsidered. Sometimes an unfair situation arises in which an adult can leave their work responsibilities at the office after the working day is over, while a child continues studying at home and may sometimes have to sit up late at night doing homework. At the same time, a large number of subjects and assignments does not necessarily mean a higher-quality education — sometimes it simply leaves a child with no time for rest, socialising, creativity, and a normal life outside school. Therefore, from the specialists' perspective, inclusive education should take into account not only what children are taught, but also how much time and energy a child is physically capable of spending on it.
This is far from everything I managed to discuss with them.
The article was already huge, so we had to cut part of the material and leave some interesting topics and answers out. For my part, I really hope that Esai en Roi will have the opportunity to interview these specialists again. The questions of inclusion and diversity are so diverse and multifaceted that every new conversation opens up a completely different side of the subject. And the opportunity to hear the opinions of people who work directly within the education system and face its problems and challenges every day made this topic even more interesting to me. I would like to thank everyone who took part in these interviews and shared their experience, knowledge, and personal opinions with me. It was genuinely interesting for me to speak with each of them and see how differently the same problems can be viewed. These are professionals who do not simply hold their positions, but who have genuinely spent many years working in education and social policy and continue looking for ways to make the system more accessible and inclusive for everyone. Thank you for your time, openness, and willingness to talk about difficult issues.
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